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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE ALASKAN
FIRST DAY.-THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 3, 1903.
Members of the Tribunal appointed by the President of the United States. Honourable ELIHU ROOT, Secretary of War of the United States; Honourable HENRY CABOT LODGE, Senator of the United States from Massachusetts; and Honourable GEORGE TURNER, of Spokane, Washington.
Members of the Tribunal appointed by His Britannic Majesty.-— The Right Honourable BARON ALVERSTONE, G. C. M. G., Lord Chief Justice of England; Sir LOUIS A. JETTÉ, K. C. M. G., LieutenantGovernor of the Province of Quebec; and Mr. ALLEN B. AYLESWORTH, K. C., of the City of Toronto.
The Honourable John W. Foster, the United States' Agent, and Honourable Clifford Sifton, K. C., the British Agent.
Honourable Jacob M. Dickinson, Mr. David T. Watson, Honourable Hannis Taylor, and Mr. Chandler P. Anderson, appeared as Counsel for the United States.
Mr. Robert Lansing, Solicitor of the United States' Agency; Mr. O. H. Tittman, Mr. W. C. Hodgkins, Mr. Otis T. Cartwright, Mr. T. John Newton, and Mr. F. R. Hanna, members of the United States' Agent's staff.
The Attorney-General (Sir Robert B. Finlay, K. C., M. P.); the Solicitor-General (Right Honourable Sir Edward H. Carson, K. C., M. P.). Mr. Christopher Robinson, K. C., Mr. F. C. Wade, K. C., Mr. L. P. Duff, K. C., and Mr. A. Geoffrion, K. C.; Mr. S. A. T. Rowlatt and Mr. J. A. Simon, appeared as Counsel for Great
Mr. W. F. King and Mr. A. P. Collier, members of the British Agent's staff.
Mr. Reginald Tower, His Britannic Majesty's Minister at Munich and Stuttgart, as Secretary to the Tribunal; Mr. J. R. Carter, Second Secretary in the American Embassy, London, and Mr. Joseph Pope, C. M. G., Under-Secretary of State of Canada, as Associate Secretaries.
Lord ALVERSTONE. The members of the Tribunal have met and have satisfied themselves of their qualifications and appointments, and have taken and have subscribed to the Oath that is required by the
Treaty. They have appointed Mr. Tower, His Britannic Majesty's Minister at Munich and Stuttgart, as Secretary, and Mr. Pope, from Canada, and Mr. Carter, of the American Embassy in London, as Associate Secretaries. The Agents have verified their appointments Mr. Bannerman is appointed the official Shorthand Writer of the Tribunal. In accordance with previous practice, on application to the Secreatry of the Tribunal at the Foreign Office, cards of admission will be supplied to any persons who desire to be present, and to whom there is no objection. I have to state that, at the request of the members of the Tribunal, they have asked me to be the nominal President of the Tribunal. I need scarcely say that I highly appreciate the confidence that has been reposed in me, and wish to place my services at the disposal of the Tribunal. We are, of course, all equal here, but it is desirable that one should be the mouth-piece of the Tribunal when necessary; therefore, in order to conform to the wish of my colleagues, I have, of course, gladly undertaken that responsibility. I think all we have to do now is to ask first the names of the Counsel who appear, and to ask the Counsel what arrangements have been made as to the actual proceedings with the Arguments.
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. The Counel who appear for Great Britain are the Attorney-General, the Solicitor-General, Mr. Christopher Robinson, K. C., of the Canadian Bar, and Mr. Wade, K. C., Mr. Duff, K. C., and Mr. Geoffrion, K. C., of the Canadian Bar, with Mr. Rowlatt and Mr. Simon of the English Bar.
The PRESIDENT. And for the United States?
Honourable JACOB M. DICKINSON. The Counsel who appear on behalf of the United States are Mr. Jacob M. Dickinson, Mr. David T. Watson, Mr. Hannis Taylor, and Mr. Chandler P. Anderson.
The PRESIDENT. When do you propose to resume, Mr. Attorney and Mr. Dickinson?
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. Well, of course, that is a matter entirely for the Tribunal. I have had the advantage of some conversation with my friend Judge Dickinson, who appears on the other side, and what we suggest for the Tribunal is this, that there should be an adjournment until this day fortnight, Thursday, the 17th of September. If that meets with the approval of the Tribunal I think it will give adequate time for both sides to be prepared then to proceed with the oral Argument.
The PRESIDENT. I think what the Tribunal would like to know before we say anything about it is what is the probable length of the Arguments and how many Counsel we are going to hear. For this reason: I had better state it at once: Mr. Root and Senator Lodge have very pressing engagements in the United States-engagements of a public character-which will make it absolutely necessary probably for one, if not for both, to leave by the 21st of October, and that being so we should like to know that there is a certainty of the oral Arguments being concluded within such time as will give the Tribunal a fair time for consideration before they assent to the adjourn
ment to the 17th. That is the only point.
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. That matter would, of course, my Lord, depend to some extent upon the number of days in the week on which it was thought right to hold the sittings. So far as we are con
cerned, we should be quite willing and anxious that the sittings should be on five days in the week.
The PRESIDENT. As it will be in the Vacation, we should set a good example, and willingly agree to sit five days a-week.
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. And as regards the hours of the sittings?
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. From 11 till 4.
The PRESIDENT. I think 11 is more convenient; half-past 10 if it is pressed, but 11 is more convenient if we should happen to be away on the Monday.
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. I think 11 o'clock is more convenient.
The PRESIDENT. We can always sit a little later if necessary.
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. Your Lordship asked about the number of Counsel
The PRESIDENT. Yes. What arrangements have been made, Mr. Attorney, about the order of speaking?
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. It is this: that three Counsel should be heard in each case; that Great Britain should have the opening, and that the United States should have the reply; then, that the Counsel should be heard alternately that is to say, that the opening for Great Britain will be followed by the opening for the United States; then will follow an Argument on behalf of Great Britain; then another Argument on behalf of the United States; then an Argument on behalf of Great Britain; and, finally, the reply-the ultimate reply-will fall to the United States.
The PRESIDENT. What is the condition of the Tribunal at the end, Mr. Attorney?
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. Well, that is for the Tribunal to say.
The PRESIDENT. How long do you want, you six gentlemen? What we really wish to do is this: we want to meet your convenience, but it is rather necessary that you should indicate to us, if you can, some definite time-arranging the time between yourselves-by which you will say on both sides by agreement that the Arguments shall be completed.
Sír ROBERT FINLAY. I find it extremely difficult to forecast at this time the exact duration, or even approximately the duration, of the Argument; but I should hope that it would be finished by the middle of October, sitting five days a-week.
The PRESIDENT. Well, do you not think that two days a-piece will be enough? I do not mean to say, it need not be two days a-piece. Do you not think twelve days for the six Counsel will be sufficient, arranged as you like?
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. I would rather not at the present stage, my Lord.
The PRESIDENT. I do not want to press you unduly.
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. I Would rather not commit either side at the present stage.
The PRESIDENT. We do not want to press you unduly, Mr. Attorney. What were you about to say, Mr. Dickinson?
Mr. DICKINSON. Mr. Watson and I thought that seven days for our side would be sufficient.
The PRESIDENT. Well, fourteen? Mr. Attorney, I do not think this would be unduly hard; I think you might agree that the oral
Arguments should be completed by Friday, the 9th of October. That gives you seventeen days. We do not want you to fill the time if unnecessary. I think that if you have seventeen working days between you, that would be enough, would it not?
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. Well, I feel in a somewhat difficult position, because your Lordship realizes what it is to open a case of this kind. Of course, the opening speech-as that duty will devolve upon myself, I feel pressed by this consideration, that in the opening speech one necessarily has to deal with a great many matters, and sometimes a full opening ultimately saves time. If we attempted, for a
The PRESIDENT. Oh, I understand. I was not suggesting that the opening speech should be only two days. I did not mean that. What I suggested was, that seventeen days would be enough for the total speeches.
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. Well, I confess that at the present moment, when I do not clearly see my way to saying what the time would be, I would rather begin a day or two sooner, so as to make sure of a sufficient margin.
The PRESIDENT. What do you say, Mr. Dickinson.
Mr. DICKINSON. That would be entirely agreeable to us. There might be a shorter adjournment.
The PRESIDENT. That would mean Monday, the 14th.
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. Well, say Tuesday.
The PRESIDENT. Tuesday, the 15th.
(The Tribunal deliberated.)
The PRESIDENT. You think seven days would do, do you, Mr. Dickinson?
Mr. DICKINSON. We expect an equal time would be allotted to Counsel on both sides. Yes; that is what we thought would be sufficient.
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. I am most anxious that there should be no undue consumption of time
The PRESIDENT. No, I am quite sure of that, Mr. Attorney; I was not thinking of that for a moment.
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. But the first consideration is that the Case should be fully presented to the Tribunal.
The PRESIDENT. Undoubtedly.
Sir ROBERT FINLAY. And having regard to its very great importance, your Lordship will understand why it is that at the present stage I cannot even appear to enter into any undertaking which further on in the Case might conflict with my views of what the interests of justice required.
The PRESIDENT. No.
(The Tribunal deliberated.)
The PRESIDENT. I understand that the 17th is really more convenient to the parties, and I think that the Tribunal would decide to meet on Thursday, the 17th, at 11 o'clock. We trust, without putting either side under an obligation, that the Arguments will be concluded by Friday, the 9th of October. We should be prepared to sit upon the Saturdays, if it was found necessary, in order to give extra days.