Mr. DAVIS. They did not tell me anything-that is, the captains of our derricks and steamers did not tell me anything-as to conditions under the surface, but on the surface there was too much wind to conduct diving operations or to handle pontoons or lifting apparatus.

Senator ODDIE. From what you know of the condition of the weather, what would have been the condition under the surface for divers? What would they have had to face and contend with?

Mr. DAVIS. Underneath, down in that depth there would be no wave motion or anything in the sea that would affect them in that locality with a north wind. They had to face bitter cold, and their air freezing. But the vessels above could not be secured properly; were swept away. The Falcon was pulled out of position by the force of the sea, so that the divers' hose and life lines laid off at a big angle; and in getting them out of the water it was risky, and the Falcon could not be held directly over the wreck, and with the antennæ and the wreckage also that they were liable to be tangled with, under those conditions if a diver became fouled, as Michaels was when Eadie went down to help him, it was very dangerous. Nothing too much can be said in praise of that man, for the chances of him coming up were mighty small. It was as heroic an action as a man could do.

Senator ODDIE. There was a heavy pitching and rolling of the ship on the surface?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes; and the fury of the wind and waves would drive her out of position; and the breaking seas going by would be apt to injure the diver as he came over the side, or went over going down.

Senator ODDIE. Was there not motion in the water below?

Mr. DAVIS. Down at that depth my experience leads me to believe that with that particular kind of a sea there would not be.

Senator GERRY. With the wind the way it was, would it set the sea right in there from the Atlantic?

Mr. DAVIS. No; from right across the bay, say from the mouth of Boston Harbor. The wind was northwest. In fact, they would have been sheltered in a northeaster, in there.

Senator GERRY. A northeaster would have been all right?

Mr. DAVIS. It would not have been all right. There would have been some swell, but there would not have been the sweep for the wind and sea that the west-northwest or northwest would have. Senator GERRY. It got the whole sweep of the bay? Mr. DAVIS. The whole sweep of Massachusetts Bay. Senator GERRY. Was it blowing about half a gale?

Mr. DAVIS. It was blowing a whole gale Sunday night, and Monday morning when they discontinued operations there, when they were forced to discontinue operations. It blew a heavy northwest gale, and freezing. The life lines and hose, they told me, were just a solid line of ice, from the salt spray freezing on it, and I am positive, from what I have heard that everything was done that human power could do to save those men.

Senator GERRY. Have you any criticism of the way the operations were conducted, or of the commanding officer conducting them? Mr. DAVIS. None whatever.

Senator GERRY. You think the department used modern methods all the modern methods that could have been used?

Mr. DAVIS. They used the only plan that was available. They used the pontoons that were used on the S-51.

Senator GERRY. Could they have used anything else but pontoons?

Mr. DAVIS. They would have had to have built anything else. There was nothing else available.

Senator GERRY. You say that they would have had to have built something else. What do you mean by that?

Mr. DAVIS. We are speaking of salvage operations, now; not of rescue?

Senator GERRY. Yes.

Mr. DAVIS. Why, I think that a lifting craft could be designed that would be much more efficient for salvage work than the pontoons; that a great deal of time could be saved; but it costs so much money that I do not know as it would be good business.

Senator GERRY. It might not be good business for an ordinary business corporation, but in the case of the United States Government, for saving life, it might be different.

Mr. DAVIS. I do not think any life-saving device is apt to save lives on a submarine.

Senator GERRY. In other words, you do not think that even with the new salvage craft that you suggest, it would save time in raising a submarine?

Mr. DAVIS. It would save a great deal of time.

Senator GERRY. I mean, sufficiently to save human life?

Mr. DAVIS. I hardly think so. Then again, in the S-51 accident, only one compartment was injured, and still that entire craft flooded. They did not close the doors. No doors were closed, and the craft flooded from end to end.

The S-4 accident is the only accident that I know of where an entire crew were in opposite ends of the submarine and survived for some time after the collision. The S-51 was under way when she was struck.

Senator GERRY. Have I got your idea clearly, then, that there might be designed a form of salvage vessel which would facilitate the raising of submarines?

Mr. DAVIS. That is my position.

Senator GERRY. But you doubt whether any salvage proposition can raise a boat in sufficient time to save human life?

Mr. DAVIS. There would have to be a very happy combination of circumstances; the salvage craft would have to be within a few hundred miles of the scene of the disaster, and then you would have to have smooth water, say two or three or four days of smooth water after she got there, to do the work. But I believe a craft can be devised that would do it efficiently.

Senator GERRY. In smooth water?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes; in smooth water.

Senator GERRY. But in a seaway such as there was here

Mr. DAVIS. No craft could be devised that could work in a storm. When I say "smooth water," I mean ordinary water such as we get, sea weather, in the summer time.

Senator GERRY. With a boat rolling in a rough sea, I should think it would make it very difficult.

Mr. DAVIS. Yes; nothing could be done in even a moderate storm.

Senator GERRY. And this was a particluarly heavy gale?
Mr. DAVIS. This was a heavy winter gale; yes, sir.

Senator ODDIE. In such a seaway would there be danger of the parting of the chains, or of breaking the submarine, in case a salvaging vessel should be constructed large enough to lift the submarine?

Mr. DAVIS. That would be one of the features of the construction of the vessel, to design her so that she would not have any reserve buoyancy, so that she would not rise in the sea; or would have little reserve buoyancy. That can be done; so that the sea would wash over her instead of her rising with the sea. Otherwise, just an ordinary surface craft, something that would rise and fall with the sea, would either part the wires or cut through the submarine.

Senator GERRY. Is there such a vessel as that in existence?

Mr. DAVIS. No. I have discussed it with salvage men and others, and they seem to think it is feasible; but I never made any detailed plans. I think the cost of a vessel to handle, say, a 3,000-ton submarine, would run into two or three million dollars.

Senator GERRY. You have no criticism, then, of the way the operations were conducted in the salvaging?

Mr. DAVIS. No, sir; none whatever.

Senator ODDIE. Do you think the Navy Department called in the best men that they knew of to assist them in this work, or the best men that could be had?

Mr. DAVIS. Why, yes, I think so; the men that were in the Falcon, Captain Hartley, of the Falcon, and Lieutenant Tibbals, a Navy man, is, I believe, the greatest expert in deep-sea diving in the world, and I know Hartley is a splendid seaman, and a man with energy, and I think they had as good as could be had anywhere.

Senator ODDIE. You have had as much experience in salvaging work as anybody, have you not?

Mr. DAVIS. I have; yes.

Senator ODDIE. From the practical end?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes. I do not agree with Mr. Spear that pontoons are the best method of salvaging a submarine. They are the best means we have available now; but if money is not an object, I am sure that a craft can be designed that will be much more efficient. Senator ODDIE. You think the Navy can design such a craft? Mr. DAVIS. I am positive they can design a craft.

Senator ODDIE. That will be practical?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator GERRY. But that craft you would have to use in smooth water?

Mr. DAVIS. You could use it in any weather that you could handle pontoons in.

Senator GERRY. You can not use pontoons in heavy weather, can you?

Mr. DAVIS. No; the surface vessel can not handle them. The divers can not go down to make them fast. When the pontoon is down, they have to put toggles on the chain, which is quite an operation. They have to lie there with hoses attached to all the pontoons. Senator GERRY. But you do think that the salvage vessel you suggest would be an advantage in a smooth sea?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator GERRY. And in that case you could raise the vessel much more quickly?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes; any conditions that you could raise the vessel in with pontoons, you could raise it in with a specially designed salvage vessel; and you can do it in a great deal less time.

Senator GERRY. If you had eyelets-I think that is what you call them on the submarine, and with a vessel located in a smooth sea, is there not a possibility of raising a submarine in a short while; or does it take you a long time to fasten your chains down there.

In

Mr. DAVIS. I doubt the value of eyelets that they talk about. the first place, the whole structure would have to be strengthened, because I know by experience in lifting, using these pneumatic pontoons and using two large derricks, you can not have the strain come equally. I have seen a number of them, and have seen working models. We are invited to look at them all the time, in the firm that I am with. The pictures always show you weights beautifully distributed, and everything lying just so; but you do not get those conditions at sea; and these eyelets, so-called, or lifting eyes in the submarine, would have to be sufficiently strong so that if you pulled at right angles to the side of the vessel it would stand all the weight. No; you can not get those things balanced under the conditions you have to work under. Everything would have to still have the same factor as your lifting wires. Of course I defer to Mr. Spear and Mr. Lake in anything in the construction of a submarine. I have been through them, and I think I might make a stab at operating one of the S-19 or the S-51 type; but I do not know anything about the science of the construction.

My opinion and perhaps it is not worth very much-is that putting lifting eyes in them would mean a tremendous addition of weight, and a change in the structure, to make the eyes be of any real use; and the submarine, when all is said and done, is a military machine.

Take that vessel that was sunk in New York Harbor, where 18 men were drowned. Every one of them got out. Now, you have that problem to think of when it comes to saving life in a submarine. Suppose 18 men got out in the diving basket, how many men will you have alive? Those men were surrounded by ships, and in five minutes a great many of those ships had their searchlights playing all around them, and still 2 or 3 of the survivors swam ashore, and 15 or 16 were picked up by the surrounding boats, but 18 were drowned. Life preservers were found 18 or 20 miles away from the disaster; and it was in the newspapers for half a day. Those men were not doing dangerous work. They were simply sailors.

It think this whole thing is more or less hysteria. It was a terrible accident, I know, and I lay awake thinking about those poor devils down there for a night or two; but it is something we have got to face, and I think as a Nation we would make ourselves ridiculous if we did anything that took away from the efficiency of the submarine, on the possible chance of saving one crew, we will say, out of a dozen lost submarines; for I think probably a dozen submarines would sink and be lost with all hands, before anything that could be added would save even part of one crew.

Senator GERRY. It seems to me that safety devices can be added in the future, from the testimony of Mr. Spear.

Mr. DAVIS. If they can be added without detracting from the military efficiency of the boat, add them, by all means; but sub-. marines are built for war and not for peace. They are built to do damage, and not for the safety of the men that go in them. The men that go in them know that it is a dangerous game; and they do not try to make ships unsinkable because a few sailors are drowned every year.

Senator GERRY. You think that alteration in the submarine is likely to interfere with the structure and increase the weight?

Mr. DAVIS. I know that they would have to be the pretty designs that I have seen so far-three of them have been brought to my attention by inventors, and they all show these things being lifted on a straight angle. One particularly, there are straps laid in there around the submarine, and you unscrew a little port, and fasten on there. As soon as you put that in there and tried to lift the boat, you would, if you did not get a straight pull, rip one side of the boat open, unless the thing was square. For these reasons I think you would have to strengthen the thing from all directions, and the added weight would be prohibitive.

Senator GERRY. Is it very difficult to get the chains under a boat? Mr. DAVIS. Why, yes; sometimes it is.

Senator GERRY. Does it take a long while?

Mr. DAVIS. I think they used, perhaps, more time than was necessary in getting chains under, to avoid damaging the hull. I think with heavy derricks and sweep chains, they might have sawed them under and got them back perhaps in less time than by washing tunnels under.

Senator GERRY. But life was extinct then, anyway.

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, life was then extinct.

Senator GERRY. Under the best circumstances, it takes a long time to get chains under, does it not?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator GERRY. A day or so at least, does it not?

Mr. DAVIS. Oh, yes; more than that.

Senator GERRY. And your idea is that it is pretty hard to conduct any salvage operations and to save life if the boat is sunk in fairly deep water?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator GERRY. And that we have got to depend for the future on life-saving devices?

Mr. DAVIS. I should think so. However, if there are specially favorable circumstances, a properly designed salvage vessel, if she could get there soon enough and then have three or four days of good weather, could pick up a submarine, I believe.

Senator GERRY. But you think it would take three or four days? Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator ODDIE. In good weather?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator ODDIE. What is your opinion as to what might have been done is raising one end of this submarine in order to save life?

Mr. DAVIS. Under the circumstances, Senator, nothing could have been done. If the weather had been fine, I am of the opinion that by putting air in the ballast tanks the two derrick barges that the Navy Department sent up there belonging to my company would