for Ireland, she had already heard too much upon this subject. (Hear, and a laugh.) Nothing, he observed, could be more decisive as to the feelings of the county of Londonderry on the subject of the catholic claims, than the petition which he had then the honour to present. The requisition for calling the public meeting at which it was passed, was signed by 340 persons; the meeting was numerously and respectably attended; and the petition itself was signed by 29 magistrates, 39 clergymen, and 1,700 freeholders, within the short period of three days.

Mr. Abercromby said, that as the right honourable baronet had insinuated that all the inflammatory language used in Ireland was used by the friends of the Catholic Association, he would be obliged to him to lay upon the table a copy of the speeches which were delivered before this petition was agreed upon, or to point out to him where he could find a correct and accurate report of them. Some such proceeding was necessary on the part of the right honourable baronet, if he wished the house to form a correct judgment on the comparison he had instituted, as to the temperateness of the language used by the two parties into which Ireland unfortunately had been so long distracted.

Mr. Dawson said, that he had been instructed by his constituents to support this petition-a course of proceeding which he certainly should have adopted, even if he had not received their instructions. The petitioners would not have thought it necessary to come with their prayers to parliament, had they not seen it falsely and impudently asserted in some resolu

tions of the Catholic Association, that the feelings of the protestants of Ireland were decidedly favourable to the catholic rent. He would undertake to say most positively that this was not the fact. Ninetenths of the protestants of Ireland were, he believed, decidedly hostile to it. They were so, at least, in the county of Derry, where they were to the catholics in the proportion of numbers as two to one, and in the proportion of respectability, property, intelligence, and industry, as 1000 to one. They were not desirous of lighting up the brand of discord in the country, but when they saw the Romancatholics taking measures which must inevitably lead to hostilities if not counteracted, they felt it incumbent upon them to come forward and to declare to government their sense of the danger in which the country was liable to be involved.

The petition was read, and ordered to be printed.

Mr. Goulburn rose, in pursuance of the notice which he had given, to move for leave to bring in a bill to amend the laws relating to unlawful associations in Ireland. At the close of the last session of parliament, he had indulged a confident hope, and one in which that house participated, that the measures which parliament had adopted, and which the government of Ireland had pursued, would have been sufficient: the steady and uniform discharge of the high trust reposed in them, which had marked the proceedings of that government, was making its way. All these measures and acts were, at the close of the session, in the course of progressive beneficial effect, and the march of

justice.

justice and peace was advancing as evenly as any honest man could desire in that country. He regretted that in such a state of things, any body should exist, which called for the interposition of the legislature at such a moment; but he could not conceal from the house, that although the previous outrages which had disgraced Ireland had ceased,-although the employment of her poor had considerably increased,-although her trade had advanced in proportion, and considerable commercial establishments had grown up in places where they had not before existed, but in which they were likely to be most beneficial;although all these benefits had arisen, and carried in their train of consequences advantages to which heretofore the country had been a stranger; yet there had also, unfortunately, grown up another power, unconnected with the parliament or the government of the country, but attempting to control both. The existence of this body was well known at the close of the last session of parliament, and its evident mischiefs were not unobserved at the time; but by the forbearance of government, there were many who hoped, that by refraining from any application to parliament to put down the Catholic Association, the evil might of itself subside, and that, however alarming was the principle of that body, there was yet room to hope that it would sink into a state of inactivity or insignificance, which would render any legislative interference with its constitution unnecessary. It had, however, he was sorry to say, in the result deceived those who had taken a mitigated view of the

subject. The Catholic Association had now notoriously risen to a station which was calculated to alarm every honest man, because it was calculated to deprive the country of that returning peace and prosperity of which it stood so much in need: it had superseded all rational authority, and carefully and ingeniously evaded the provisions of the existing law against illegal associations in Ireland. He was perfectly aware how tiresome it must be for the house to have to hear over again the public proceedings of a body, which during the whole of its deliberations boasted of having courted publicity. It took the utmost possible pains to disseminate its acts from the commencement of its new era, in the year 1823. It was, in the consideration of this part of the subject, a matter of perfect indifference to him what were the original intentions of the founders of this association. Their first report stated, that they confined their labours merely to the progress of the catholic question, and matters immediately connected with that measure; it mattered little to him, whether this was their only object, or whether they sought to attain a reform in parliament, or ultimately, a separation from Great Britain. Enough was it for him to know, that the present evils were glaring from the existence of this association, whatever were the intentions of its early promoters. He should, on account of the publicity which they had already obtained, refrain from going into details of the speeches so frequently made by the principal members of the Catholic Association, and he was at the same time ready to admit, that

debates

debates in popular assemblies were often very likely to be conducted in a tone and manner little calculated to sooth the parties who felt an interest in the controversy. But there was this peculiar character belonging to this assembly, in which it differed from almost every y other that there was a concurrence of opinion among its members, all directed with a united effort to one point-that dissent was inadmissible from the proceedings of this body, and therefore that it lost the interposing aid of the clash of adverse opinions, which in other assemblies mitigated, if not neutralized, the violence of peculiar views. Here there was no opposing voice, and therefore was the greater danger to be apprehended from unanimous efforts to attain particular ends. Another dangerous tendency of this body was its indefinite quality, as well as its indefinite duration. Imperfect as sometimes was the periodical controul of the multitude, fickle as was its supervision, still it presented some controul over other bodies: here there was none, as this self-elected body continued to act without resorting for extraneous advice, or any fresh accession of power from the people. He would describe the persons who composed this Catholic Association. There was certainly among them a few of the first class of the catholic body; there was next a number of those persons who regularly attended to Irish affairs, among them disappointed individuals, who sought personal aggrandizement, some of whom undoubtedly possessed considerable talents: their occupation was occasionally to discuss some real grievance, but more often to colour

up, or exaggerate, some fancied one, to inflame the people by declarations that their legislature was corrupt, and their laws cruel and oppressive. It was by arts such as these that individuals acquired popular estimation among the body. In addition to these classes, there were also in the association surviving members of the Catholic Convention of 1793, who had abandoned the actually representative character, to assume the virtual principle of representation. There were, besides, men among them who had been in the rebellious ranks of old times, who had for their offences suffered the penalty of the law-men who were the friends of Tone, of Russell, and Emmett, traitors who had borne arms against the King's troops, when drawn out to oppose their insurrectionary schemes. Together with this promiscuous assemblage, was to be found a few members of the catholic peerage and aristocracy, and a considerable number of the catholic gentry and persons of property. It was impossible, however, not to feel that many of these respectable persons did not give what ought to be deemed a voluntary co-operation; on the contrary, he knew that there were many of the respectable gentry and catholic aristocracy who viewed the proceedings of this association with a dread not inferior to that of their most ardent opponents. It was not by rank or virtue that the members of such a society raised themselves to eminence in the eyes of their fellow-countrymen, but by acting the part of pander to the prejudices and passions of the multitude. It was this which had a tendency, and a formidable one

too,

too, to effect mischief, for it took from honourable ambition the virtuous motive of moral impulse. In the exercise of these popular appeals to the passions of the people, the Catholic Association proceeded according to all the recognized forms of Parliament; they had their committees of grievance, of justice, of education, finance, with persons regularly assigned and deputed to conduct all these investigations. These general committees had also subordinate agents under their controul, who had specific duties to perform, with particular duties relative to individual grievances. The only office which was not regularly and systematically filled was that of speaker-and there the only difficulty arose in consequence of the nature of the office imposing perpetual silence upon the possessor. Although the association had succeeded in actually acquiring a decided controul over the catholic population of the country, yet they attempted to keep up appearances by occasionally convening an aggregate meeting, which they held out to be a general meeting of the catholics of Ireland, but where in fact the orators were the same who figured away at the association, and who re-assembled at the more public meeting, merely to re-echo each other's self-congratulation, and each to bestow upon his fellow-member the full meed of praise for previous services. The first great act of this self-constituted body was the imposition of what was denominated the catholic rent, and which was supposed to be merely a voluntary contribution. There were regular collectors, and regular sums as

men

sessed under this name, so that it was by many felt to be an onerous and grievous tax. Was it to be tolerated that money was in this manner to be collected from his Majesty's subjects by an irresponsible body, and to be applied to indefinite objects? Was that a state of things which the constituted anthorities could endure? And so completely was the engine for collecting this payment constructed, that there was a regular chain through all the ranks of society, closely linked, to encircle the different gradations of society. The association first ordered a sum of money to be raised by the body at large. And who were employed for this purpose? Those of most influence-the priesthood, who, with the agency of direct collectors, superintended by themselves, acting under express instructions, and with regular sets of books, in which were inscribed the names, condition, and rent of the individual, proceeded to levy this contribution. In the mode of collection there was a direct controul both of a spiritual and political nature, and the names and amount were regularly fixed upon: and there were not wanting instances in which direct censure was intimated to individuals who were backward in their offerings, and who were held up to popular opprobrium for their inaction. Neither was the influence of the priesthood alone confined to the collection of this rent, and the censure of those who were inactive in their contributions: it also went to fill another book, which was to contain the names of those who refused, and whose refusal was as regularly recorded and reported. Was this, then, to be called a voluntary

voluntary subscription? It had so happened, that many respectable gentlemen of the country, who recollected the abject misery of their peasantry, and their inability to provide adequate support or education for their families, had endeavoured to dissuade them from applying any little portion of their inadequate means to the fund of this rent. The consequence was, that the Association at once denounced them, held them up to reprobation and scorn, and if not to the vengeance, at least to the hostility of their fellow-countrymen. In the constitution of this fund, then, there was in itself a heavy grievance; and when they came to consider of its application, they would find equal cause of complaint. He deeply regretted the part which the priesthood had taken in this transaction; when they recollected the influence of the priest over his flock-his power of absolving, or permitting under certain qualifications, a power which, whether the priest had actually made use of it, or not, was still formidable, and which, when exercised in a political sense, was much to be deplored. To some parts of the application of this money, he would not detain the house by interposing objections;he would not object to the members of the Association giving briefs to each other in the courts of law, and paying the fees out of the catholic rent; nor would he criticise the regard shown by them to the liberty of the press, in retaining a considerable part of the Irish press in their interestin persecuting another part of the press-in employing Cobbett, and disseminating his writings throughout the country. Although not

unmindful of the injurious tendency of some of these acts, he yet did not mean to complain of them. It was in their unjustifiable interference with the administration of justice that he thought the legislature had a right to complain. He knew he should be told, that there were institutions in England which had a similar object; but even if that were the case, it did not follow, that that which might be permitted here was equally permissible in Ireland. It was, he thought, manifest, from the tendency of the proceedings in Ireland, that the interference now carried on there by the Association with the administration of justice, could not be conducted without the most manifest danger to the country. The right hon. gentleman went on to show the effects of the continual interference of the Association in the affairs of Ireland. Not only were the proceedings of the civil government thus impeded, but the same spirit actuated the Association to interpose their influence in the ordinary administration of justice. The business of the court at quarter sessions was perplexed by them; and they contrived to intermingle with the common interests of justice all the bitterness of political enmity. Without the application of some check, no case of any kind could, by-and-by, be brought on before those tribunals in which the magistrates would be able to do their duty with safety. In every case of felony or murder, especially, it would be assumed by the association, that it was their business to be vigilant in superintending the execution of the laws. Counsel would be retained at

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