would at that time willingly afford. He could not conceive how the hon. member, who generally looked abroad with a philosophic eye, could look at our foreign possessions without seeing how widely different their present state was from their state twenty years ago. The establishment which defended them twenty years ago was utterly inadequate to their present defence, so great had been the change in their relative situations to each other, and also in every thing which surrounded them. In England, in case of any sudden danger, the ministers could call upon the people to support the government with its resources; and if the call was just, it was certain to be successful: but in our foreign possessions, which were widely scattered over the face of the earth and of the water, those resources could not be immediately called into action, and it would be therefore unwise to leave them exposed to all the dangers of sudden invasion. These were the general grounds, without entering further into their details, on which he thought that it would be successfully argued that there were just causes for increasing the army. He expected, however, that the hon. gentleman, if he took his information of the extent of that increase from the sources which were open to the public, would be greatly disappointed, when he learned what that increase was really to be.

Colonel Palmer touched upon the same topics as Mr. Hobhouse. Sir J. Newport particularly defended the Catholic Association.

Mr. Peel said, in the course of this evening, his right hon. friend near him (Mr. Goulburn) would

give notice of a motion on the subject of the associations in Ireland, and it was the intention of his Majesty's government to submit such a measure upon its own responsibility. This determination was not shaken by what he had heard from hon. members opposite, and he still felt it his duty to press a measure upon the consideration of parliament. That these associations in Ireland ought to be put down, he thought could not reasonably be denied; indeed, he thought that the warmest advocates for the liberty of the subject ought to call for their extinction. He spoke not of the opinions of those who thought such a body as the Catholic Association trenched on the supremacy of the crown, or on the privileges of the executive government; but of the opinion of every man, who valued the proper privileges of the people, who respected the due. administration of justice, who wished to maintain the principles of rational liberty, and who must think that no government could endure the establishment of such a deliberative body next the authorities of the state. An association like this to be permitted to levy taxes on the people, was that consistent with either sense or reason? Then their interference with the administration of justice, could that be sanctioned? For these brief reasons, and for others which would be stated at another and a fitter opportunity, he thought it would not be difficult to shew every man who advocated the popular principles of the constitution, that bodies arrogating to themselves such a power as these associations, ought not to be permitted to exist. In his opinion,

they

they trenched upon the existing law-the Convention Act: the letter of the law was evaded, but its fair spirit was infringed. He would not accept the proffered assistance to his view of the catholic question which some hon. members were so ready to give him, when they declared that the Catholic Association was the representative of the opinions of the catholic body at large; for he could not easily bring himself to believe that the latter were prepared to identify themselves with the former in such addresses as conjured them to combine by "their hatred of the Orangemen." He could not believe that a christian sect, and christian pastors, could adopt a bond of hatred so entirely at variance with the pious spirit which they professed. He repeated, that he could not bring himself to believe that any large portion of the people would tolerate such a sentiment as was expressed in the address which had emanated from the Catholic Association. If, however, the catholics generally participated in such feelings and opinions, then, indeed, how additionally strong became the reason for excluding from political power persons capable of holding such tenets. No, he could not believe that the catholic community would adopt such principles, for he had always hitherto heard their best advocates entreat that the errors of the few should not be visited upon the heads of He should refrain

the many. from any further remark at present, except to repeat, that in calling upon parliament to put down this association, he was confident he was contributing to promote the tranquillity of Ireland,

and to remove one cause, at least, of excitement and exasperation. And he had no doubt, that when the catholics were informed by a legislative enactment, that they had been misled, they would readily obey the provisions of the law, without it being necessary to enforce them by any military

coercion.

Mr. C. H. Hutchinson and Lord Nugent next spoke in favour of, and Sir T. Lethbridge against, the Catholic Association.

Several other members then followed, some in favour of, and others opposed to the association.

The address was then read a second time, and ordered to be presented on Monday next, by such members as are of his Majesty's privy council.

Mr. Goulburn gave notice, that he should on Thursday next move for leave to bring in a bill to amend the existing laws relating to illegal associations.

The house then adjourned at a quarter past nine o'clock to Monday.

House of Lords, Feb. 7.-The Earl of Liverpool brought down his Majesty's answer to the address of the house voted on Thursday last, which was ordered to be entered on the journals.-Adjourned.

House of Commons, Feb. 7.— On the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the order of the day for the consideration of the Lord Commissioners' speech was read.

The Clerk of the House then read the following sentence from the Lord Commissioners' speech: "Gentlemen of the House of Commons,-His Majesty has directed us to inform you that the estimates

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of the year will be forthwith laid before you."

The Chancellor of the Exchequer then moved, that the house do resolve itself into a committee of supply pro forma to-morrow, to consider further of his Majesty's speech. Ordered.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer read at the bar his Majesty's most gracious answer to the address. It was ordered to be printed.

Mr. Hume moved, that there be laid on the table an account of the quantity of British spirits which had paid duty from the 5th of July, 1790, to the 5th of January, 1825, showing the number of gallons which had paid duty in Scotland, the rate of duty per gallon, the amount of revenue arising from it, and also the number of gallons exported in each year. The object of this motion was to show, that the different rate of duty which existed in England, Scotland, and Ireland, opened a wide door to smuggling between the three countries. It would likewise prove, he believed, that in proportion as the duty had been reduced, the consumption of the article on which it was placed had increased. In Ireland the amount of revenue arising from the duty of 2s. per gallon was greater than that which arose from the duty of 5s. per gallon. If such were the case, was it not high time to put a stop to a system of duties which inevitably led to smuggling in the first instance, and to riot and murder in the second? Scarcely a day elapsed without their reading of some fray between the smugglers and the revenue officers, which terminated in the death of some

1825.

of the contending parties. There was nothing but a mere imaginary line to divide England from Scotland; and yet, at one side of this line the duty was two shillings, and at the other 10s. 6d. per gallon. This was a temptation too great to be resisted. He suggested to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the present was a fit time to appoint a committee to inquire into the operation of heavy duties upon all articles of general consumption. He thought that if such inquiry were made, which would come most graciously from his Majesty's ministers, it would be found that all such duties might be reduced without injuring the revenue of the country.

Mr. Curwen pressed upon the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer the dreadful state in which the northern counties were in consequence of the difference in the duty on British spirits in England and Scotland. Conviction might follow conviction for smuggling them into England; but they were of little use, except in filling our gaols with prisoners, who were afterwards turned out upon the country as hardened offenders.

The motion was then agreed to.

Mr. Hume gave notice, that he would to-morrow move for the number of free subjects who had been banished, without trial, from India, since the year 1813. On the 3d of March he should move for a select committee on the church of Scotland; and on the 4th of March he should move to withdraw from Ireland the Viceroy and all his establishment, with a view of giving to that country the full benefit of the act of union.

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union. The house then adjourned.

House of Lords, Feb. 8.-The Marquis of Lansdown remarked upon the proposed abolition of the Catholic Association. He contended that there was nothing illegal upon the face of it, and that it ought not to be put down; that to make opinions dangerous, they should be confined, like the powerful agent of steam, but if permitted to evaporate they are harmless. He concluded by moving, "that an humble address be presented to his Majesty, praying that he would be graciously pleased to direct that there be laid before their lordships copies of all despatches from the lordlieutenant of Ireland relative to the religious and political associations of Ireland, and their consequences."

He was supported by Lords Holland and Carnarvon, and opposed by Earls Liverpool, Grosvenor, and Bathurst; after which the house divided :-Content 20; Not content 42.

House of Commons, Feb. 8.— Serjeant Onslow rose to bring in a bill to repeal the usury laws. The motion was lost by 52 against 45. Dr. Lushington moved for a copy of the committal of William Quigley, Cockayne, and Ann and Martha Lowten, to Londonderry gaol, who had been committed under an old Irish law, two of the parties being of the church of Scotland, and married by a Romish priest.

Sir John Newport seconded the

motion.

Sir George Hill defended the conduct of the magistrates, upon whom he said the law was peremptory.

After some observations by other members, some of whom stated the greatness of the evil of these marriages, and the cruel consequences to the females who were victims to them, the motion was agreed to.

Mr. Herries brought in a bill to repeal the usury laws, which was read a first time.-Adjourned.

House of Lords, Feb. 10.-The Earl of Liverpool rose, in pursuance of the notice he had given, to move the appointment of a committee to inquire into the state of Ireland, in a more extended manner than the inquiry which took place last session. Under these terms, no fair subject of examination would be excluded. But in thus appointing a committee to inquire into the actual state of Ireland, he certainly did not mean to refer that particular subject which was commonly called the Catholic question. That was a subject of too paramount importance to be consigned to an inquiry of this kind. It was competent for any member of their lordships' house to propose the discussion of that question; but he would not consent to its being specifically referred to a select committee, or to any committee which did not include every member of their lordships' house. It was, therefore, not with the view of having the Catholic question considered, that he made the present motion. It would, as he had observed, be open to any member of the house to consider when that question should be discussed by the whole house. But while he said this, it was not his intention to limit the inquiry as to those facts which might relate to or have a bearing on the Catholic question. If there

were

were facts connected with that question, which, in the judgment of any noble lord, might throw light on the inquiry, he would not object to their being investigated. With regard to the composition of the committee, he should name for its members the same noble lords who composed the committee of last year, with the exception of some who were either absent or wished to be excused from attending. A noble friend of his, who sat on the committee of last year, was absent on the continent, and he should therefore move to appoint Lord Fitzgibbon in the room of the Earl of Clare; and as Earl Fitzwilliam, on account of his age, did not wish to continue on the committee, he would propose in his stead the Duke of Devonshire. The noble earl concluded by a motion in the terms he had before stated.

Several noble lords expressed concurrence in the motion. Lord King hoped that no enactments regarding Ireland would take place till the inquiry had been made.

The motion was then put, and agreed to.-Adjourned.

House of Commons, Feb. 10.The gallery was crowded at an early hour, in consequence of the notice given by Mr. Goulburn on a former day, of his intention of asking this day for leave to bring in a bill to amend certain acts relating to unlawful societies in Ireland.

Mr. Maxwell presented a petition from the nobility, gentry, and freeholders of the county of Cavan, against the concession of any further privileges to the Romancatholics. He should merely state, that the petition he had the honour to present was signed by 4,700 persons, and should reserve

to another opportunity the declaration of his opinions, which were in complete unison with those of the petitioners.-Ordered to be printed.

Sir G. Hill presented a petition from the nobility, magistrates, clergymen, and freeholders, of the county of Londonderry, praying the house to take speedy measures to suppress an assembly which styled itself the Catholic Association of Ireland. He should ab

stain from entering into any detail of the various evils which had emanated from that very mischievous body, and should merely state the circumstances out of which this petition had originated. He could assure the house, that though much alarm had been excited in the minds of the protestant population of Ireland, by the attempts of that assembly to rule, tax, and govern their catholic fellow subjects, and to alienate their affections from the regularly constituted authorities of the country, the petitioners would have left the suppression of the evil to the executive government, had they not seen a dangerous attempt to levy the catholic rent in their own immediate neighbourhood. A subscription had been entered into in the town of Londonderry, to build a school-house for the education of Roman - catholics an undertaking which several protestants had benevolently contributed to support. The money so raised was given the leaders of the Roman-catholics in that neighbourhood, who immediately handed it over to the 'rent,' accompanying their gift with the usual inflammatory speeches. (Shouts of "Hear" from the Opposition.) He said "hear" too, though unfortunately

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