PROTESTANT.-The variety of opinions held by Protestants respecting the time of this event matters little, because all are agreed upon the fact itself, namely, that there was a certain period in which the Roman Catholic Church swerved from truth, and then she passed from being the Church of Christ to a state of corruption.

CATHOLIC.-Do you not perceive that the assertion of Protestants on this subject is most injurious to Christ? Of all blasphemies against Christ what more guilty and horrible, than to say that our Redeemer abandoned his Church by permitting her to fall into error? Moreover, how was this introduction of new doctrines received by the christians of that age? Did they adhere to, or protest against them? If they adhered to them, where was the immaculate spouse of the spotless Lamb? Where was that Church which is called by the apostle "the pillar and foundation of truth"? What became of the promise of Christ, that he would be with the apostles and their successors till the end of the world?

PROTESTANT.-Christ's Church never failed; because there have always been some who protested against the errors of the Roman Church, even from the beginning of her defection from truth.

CATHOLIC.-If it be true, as you say, I beg leave to ask, whether such as protested against the errors of the Roman Catholic Church were few or many. If few, where was at that time the Church of Christ, which, according to the doctrine of the scripture, and the belief of Protestants themselves, must be catholic, namely, universal? You know that God promised to Abraham, that in his seed all nations of the earth should be blessed (Gen.

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xxii. 18); that he renewed this same promise to Isaac; that of the extent and universality of his spiritual kingdom, the scriptural prophecies are literally full; that Isaiah predicted that the nations should flow unto the Church (ii. 2.); that the royal prophet sang of the apostles in exalted strains, that "their sounds went forth unto all the earth, and their words to the end thereof" (Ps. xviii. 5); that all the families of the earth were to turn to the Lord (xxi. 28-29); that our Lord commanded his apostles to teach all nations (Matth. xxviii. 19); that he declared, in the most explicit terms, that penance and the remission of sin should be preached to all nations (Luke xxiv. 47); and that he clearly promised to support them and their successors in these labours to the end of the world. (Matth. xxviii. 20.) Now, where was, at the period of the supposed fall of the Roman Catholic Church, that visible kingdom of God, spread through all the world, and embracing people of every nation? Where was to be found that body of pastors and doctors, which Christ gave to his Church until the end of the world, for the purpose of confirming the faithful in truth?

If you say that those who protested against the errors of the Roman Catholic Church, in the very beginning of her supposed fall, were many, I ask you again, whence comes it, that Protestants so widely differ as to the epoch of that fact? How could this great event, of millions and millions of people, spread throughout the world, revolting against that Church in which they were nurtured, remain concealed, if such revolt had ever been?

Besides, how did the Roman Catholic Church, even at that time, maintain her influence through all the world as before? Where was to be found, without her pale, such a body of christians, protesting against her errors, as could constitute the

universal Church of Christ? Did the bishops and priests through all the world, at that period, revolt against the Pope and his adherents, that they might maintain the purity of the doctrine of Christ and preserve his Church? Who are they who first rose against the supposed corruption of the Roman Catholic Church?

PROTESTANT.-The men who protested against the errors of the Roman Church from the very beginning of her fall, were numerous indeed; but their protestations being all interior, and confined within the secret recesses of their hearts, remained unknown to the world, who sees only what appears exteriorly. Hence, the true Church of Christ did not fail with the downfall of the Roman Church, but continued in a hidden state for several centuries.

CATHOLIC.-Whence do you ascertain that, after the supposed fall of the Roman Catholic Church, there were spread throughout the world numbers protesting against her, and holding steadfastly the real doctrine of Christ, if all this happened within the hidden precincts of their hearts, without shewing it exteriorly? Did God, who alone is the searcher of the human heart, manifest this important circumstance to you? What would become of mankind were it lawful to recur to mere assertions, founded on interior and hidden facts, in order to defend our opinion? Besides, how is it possible that millions and millions, spread through all the world, could so restrain themselves, as not to manifest distinctly and openly their interior opposition to the Roman Catholic Church, had she really fallen into error? Are not christians obliged to profess exteriorly that faith, which they interiorly believe? The apostles, who really believed the doctrine of Christ, could not be re

strained from manifesting it exteriorly; so that when the Jewish council called on Peter and John, and charged them, under the severest threats, not to speak at all, nor teach in the name of Jesus, they answered them: "If it be just in the sight of God, to hear you rather than God, judge ye. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard." (Acts iv. 18-20.) It is true that the virtue of faith consists in believing the doctrine of God, on account of his infinite veracity; but, being composed of a spiritual and corporeal substance, we must profess it exteriorly, according to those words of the apostle St. Paul: "With the heart we believe unto justice, but with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Rom. x. 10.) How then is it possible, that millions and millions concealed their faith during so many centuries, in violation of that sacred obligation, under which all christians are, of exteriorly professing it, particularly when it cannot be concealed without implicitly denying it?

Further, how can the Church of Christ have been existing at that period, in people who were all unfaithful to their duty, and, consequently, enemies of God? It is quite evident from scripture, that at every period there will be very many christians in the Church of Christ, faithful to their duty, acceptable to God, and shining for sanctity: but where was this Church distinguished for sanctity of members at that time, in which they all refused to profess openly their faith, and to protest openly against error?

Finally, I request you particularly to bear in mind, that the Church of Christ must be perpetually visible. For how are incorrigible brethren to be made known to the Church, if the Church is not visible? How is it possible for the shepherds to feed their flocks, if these flocks cannot be known by any visible sign? How can the flocks

possibly have recourse to their pastors, unless these pastors bear some distinguished mark? How is it possible for the doctors to confirm the faithful in the faith, and preserve them from error, if the faithful have no external sign by which they are to be recognized? How is it possible for the faithful to recur to their doctors to be confirmed in the true faith, and defended from error, if these doctors have not some distinguishing mark to point them out?

Therefore, it is quite clear that the Church of Jesus Christ must be perpetually visible. I say perpetually for there is a perpetual obligation imposed by Christ on the faithful of denouncing incorrigible brethren to the Church, and of looking upon those who refuse to hear her as heathens and publicans; and also because the obligations of pastors and doctors are perpetual. Now, where was this visible Church at the period of which you speak?

But as you say, that the Church of Christ continued to be in a hidden state only for several centuries, I would know who were the first that protested openly and exteriorly against the supposed errors of the Roman Catholic Church?

PROTESTANT.-The first who openly arose against the errors of the Roman Church, and opposed them most strenuously, were the reformers, and numbers of christians subsequently followed their example.

CATHOLIC.-What do you mean by this term "Reformers"?

PROTESTANT. This term is applied to those who restored to the Church of Christ her primitive form, of which she had been deprived during