sure that you did not go back and see Mr. Newman?" Those are the questions that I could not understand and considered that they were pointed questions.

Senator BECKHAM. Before you gave the testimony to Maj. Stotesbury, how long a notice had you had that you were to give that testimony?

Mr. CLARK. Just time to walk over; maybe 5 or 10 minutes longer time than enough to walk down to the Blackstone Hotel.

Senator BECKHAM. Did you know when he summoned you to the hotel what he wished you for?

Mr. CLARK. No; when he summoned me to the hotel it was to investigate all the hospitals, and Mr. Reynolds had referred him to me as having more or less knowledge in regard to the Speedway.

Senator HARDWICK. I think we had better close the examination now if you can get through in a short time.

Mr. ADCOCK. Yes; there are just a few more questions I wanted to ask.

Referring to the appraisal made for the sanitary district by Mr. Hodge and Mr. Oliver and another man by the name of Brittman, was not the appraisal of that property-there were three or four pieces appraised-near the Speedway? Was not that property near the Speedway that was appraised at $900 an acre, and some $600? Mr. CLARK. $600.

Mr. ADCOCK. And the piece that was bought, the asking price for that was $1,500?

Mr. CLARK. Yes; well, I can not say as to that. I do not remember now, but I remember the actual transaction as it finally occurred and the price that was paid.

Mr. ADCOCK. $950?

Mr. CLARK. $950.

Senator HARDWICK. Just one question that the committee has thought has not been covered by counsel.

What about Mr. Pitcher? You know him, do you?

Mr. CLARK. I know him. There is not a man that ever wore shoes that is finer than Louis Pitcher in the city of Chicago.

Senator HARDWICK. Did he go to see Newman or Poppenhusen at your suggestion?

Mr. CLARK. No, sir; absolutely not.

Senator HARDWICK. You heard his testimony here?

Mr. CLARK. Shall I just relate my part in that?

Senator HARDWICK. I think we can get it in a quicker way if I ask some questions. You heard what he stated?

Mr. CLARK. Yes.

Senator HARDWICK. Did he state it correctly?

Mr. CLARK. He stated, in substance, in a way correctly. I did not know that he was acquainted with Mr. Newman, and there was no suggestion on my part of his going to see Mr. Newman.

Senator HARDWICK. Well, you knew he advised with him?

Mr. CLARK. After I had talked with him. He was impressed with the suggestion, as the suggestion had impressed me, and then told me that he thought he might do this matter some good.

Senator HARDWICK. By going to see Newman?

Mr. CLARK. By going to see a friend of his, he said, and he spoke about Newman and asked if it would be an embarrassment to me. I

then said, "Let me ask Trainer." He said, "No; I do not want Trainer to know anything about the possibility of my going over,"

or words to that effect.

The reason that I asked Maj. Stotesbury to see Mr. Pitcher was because I did not go to Newman's; I knew that I had made this remark to Mr. Pitcher and I wanted him to find out from Louis Pitcher where he had gone and what he had done. I did not understand in his questions that they were implying in any way that I was under

Senator HARDWICK. Your recollection of what passed between you and Mr. Pitcher corresponds exactly to Mr. Pitcher's testimony. Mr. CLARK. Yes.

Senator HARDWICK. So that we need not go over his testimony? Mr. CLARK. Yes; about the same.

Mr. ADCOCK. At that time this commission was in Chicago, was it not?

Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.

Mr. ADCOCK. This was about the 1st of October?

Mr. CLARK. Yes.

Mr. ADCOCK. And if your recollection is correct the war was on with great force at that time?

Mr. CLARK. Yes.

Mr. ADCOCK. And what you were interested in was getting beds there, was it not?

Mr. CLARK. Doing everything that we possibly could; doing my best to help the commission in getting emergency hospitals, as the term would apply.

Mr. ADCOCK. And you had in mind that possibly this Speedway might be obtained as a hospital, and thereby you might get beds secured?

Mr. CLARK. I had in mind, Mr. Adcock, that the commission had been there for some time and were very much discouraged; that the trustees of the Field Museum had turned down the proposition of using the Field Muesum as a hospital, and that they up to that time had secured only some 600 beds, and that they had been sent out to get 10,000 beds.

Senator HARDWICK. And that they could get some at the Speedway?

Mr. CLARK. Yes.

Senator HARDWICK. All right.

Mr. CLARK. The fact is, in regard to the Speedway, I knew that the plans had been drawn, according to Mr. Schmidt's statement, by him, whom I considered one of the best architects in the country.

Senator HARDWICK. In other words, you believed that it was a good project in every way?

Mr. CLARK. As far as I knew, in every way.

Mr. ADCOCK. And Gen. Noble was exercised about their not getting beds?

Mr. CLARK. Yes.

Senator HARDWICK. All right. You may be excused.

Mr. BENNET. Did I understand your testimony, whether you had ever spoken with Mr. Newman at all, at any time or place-Mr. Jacob Newman?

Mr. CLARK. Only at that one meeting where I went there to pick Mr. Trainer up to go to the Federal Reserve or to John Shedd's office. Mr. BENNET. Your testimony is specific and explicit that you did talk with Mr. Newman, then?

Mr. CLARK. Only to acknowledge that introduction is all; and my best memory is that I did not exchange three words with the gentleman.

Mr. BENNET. I wanted to get that straight on the record.

Senator HARDWICK. Now, gentlemen, so far as I know, we have heard practically all of the evidence that you care to offer on this issue that is presented to us.

Mr. BENNET. We have one other witness, Mr. Wheelock, who is coming on from Chicago.

Senator HARDWICK. Wheelock?

Mr. BENNET. Yes; who will testify as to the facts about that conversation.

Senator HARDWICK. He was present at this meeting where the commissions were discussed?

Mr. BENNET. Yes.

Senator HARDWICK. You do not want to just keep replying to each other.

Mr. BENNET. No.

Senator HARDWICK. If you do that, we will never get through.

It looks as though we would only have one other witness, who will be short, and we ought to conclude this evidence in one morning session. We want to conclude, at any rate, not later than Tuesday or Wednesday, and hear whatever argument is to be heard in this matter, so that the committee may proceed to the consideration of our report to the Senate, because we have other urgent duties to perform in respect to these very legislative matters.

Mr. ADCOCK. Then we can calculate on Wednesday morning for the argument?

Senator HARDWICK. I think not later than that; maybe earlier.

(At 2.30 o'clock p. m. the subcommittee adjourned until Monday, February 10, 1919, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.)

MILITARY HOSPITALS.

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 1919.

UNITED STATES SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON PUBLIC BUILDINGS AND GROUNDS,

Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. in the room of the committee in the Capitol, Senator Thomas S. Hardwick presiding. Present: Senators Hardwick (acting chairman), Trammell, Beckham, France, and Lenroot.

TESTIMONY OF COL. EVAN SHELBY, UNITED STATES ARMY.

(The witness was not sworn.)

Mr. BOUVIER. Will you kindly give your full name, rank, and Washington address, sir?

Col. SHELBY. Evan Shelby; colonel, Quartermaster Corps; address, Seventh and B; house address, the Marlborough.

Mr. BOUVIER. Prior to entering the service, what had been your profession or occupation?

Col. SHELBY. The practice of law.

Mr. BOUVIER. And for about how long a period?

Col. SHELBY. Twenty years.

Mr. BOUVIER. Did you at any time meet Mr. Newman?

Col. SHELBY. I did.

Mr. BOUVIER. Can you recall approximately the date when you first met him?

Col. SHELBY. I think it was on a Saturday, the 18th of August,

1918.

Mr. BOUVIER. Did you meet him on any other occasion beyond the one of the 18th of August?

Col. SHELBY. I met him the next day.

Mr. BOUVIER. And have you met him since the 19th, which would be the succeeding day?

Col. SHELBY. Yes; I have seen him and spoken to him casually. Mr. BOUVIER. Will you please tell the committee what, if any, was the conversation that took place between you and Mr. Newman upon the occasion of your first meeting on or about the 18th day of August, 1918?

Col. SHELBY. Some time in the afternoon of Saturday, the 18th of August, Lieut. Col. Wright, of the Construction Division, brought Mr. Newman into my office and introduced him. He said he had a matter in relation to a hospital that he was anxious to have the War Department take up and as it involved a contract, a draft of which

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