petitions deserved the serious attention of the House; but nothing could be done immediately in the business. Parliament, he said, was not ripe for the discussion of an affair of such magnitude as the framing of a constitution for a large, flourishing and growing province. A sufficient body of information had not been transmitted from that colony, to enable the House to determine upon the merits, of the subject contained in the petitions. As to the appointment of a House of Assembly, though he was inclined to recommend that mode of legislation, he had strong doubt whether it would be proper at this time, when the province was in a state of heat and fermentation. A popular Assembly would not tend to allay that heat. The privilege of Habeas Corpus was ordered by the Legislative Council of Quebec, to be granted to the inhabitants; so that they had no reason to complain in that particular. He was not pleased with the motion in its present form.

Mr. Fox ridiculed the idea that Parliament was not ripe for the formation of a constitution for Quebec. Could it be supposed that, after that province had been in our possession for the space of 25 years, sufficient information had not been procured to authorise a complete determination upon what laws were most expedient for the government of it? He charged His Majesty's Ministers with great neglect, and even with being unfit for the offices they held as they had not taken the proper steps to accelerate this business.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer vindicated himself from the charge of neglect; and Mr. Fox rejoined.

Mr. Marsham thought the House ought to pass a bill immediately for extending the Habeas Corpus Act to Quebec; that it might no longer be considered as a mere favour or indulgence to the inhabitants, but as a matter of right. He also proposed, that after the Chairman should have left the chair, the House should pledge itself to enter fully into this business early in the next session.

Mr. Sheridan regarded the Ministry as culpable, for having so long neglected the proper adjustment of the laws for the province of Canada.

Mr. Alderman Watson remarked, that great inconveniences arose in Canada from the bad administration of bad laws, and hoped that the British laws, in general would be extended to that province.

Mr. Martin was convinced of the propriety of coming to a speedy determination on this head.

Sir James Johnstone was friendly to the prayer of the petitions; but wished that the discussion might be postponed till next session.

Mr. Burke agreed to the motion.

Mr. C. L. Smith, Sir W. Dolben, Sir Herbert Mackworth, and Sir Watkin Lewes, also spoke on the occasion.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer having moved, that the Chairman leave the Chair, instead of putting the question on Mr. Powys's motion, a division took place; when the numbers were, for the Minister's motion 104, against it 39, majority 65.

Mr. Powys then moved, that this House will, early in the subsequent session, take into consideration the petitions from Quebec.

XLVII

SYDNEY TO DORCHESTER1

[Trans. Shortt and Doughty.]

Whitehall, 3d Sept., 1788.

My Lord.

Your Lordship will have seen, by the proceedings which took place in Parliament in the course of the last Session, the Arguments which were made use of on the Introduction of the Petition brought by Mr. Lymburner from Quebec, for a Change of the present Constitution of the Province, and the reasons which occurred to His Majesty's Ministers for avoiding any decision upon that very important Subject.

It will, however, be absolutely necessary that it should be resumed very shortly after the next meeting, and it will, of course, be a matter of great importance to His Majesty's Servants, that they should be previously prepared to enter into a full discussion of the business, and to propose such arrangements as may be found to be expedient for removing every just and reasonable cause of complaint that may exist among His Majesty's Subjects, of any description whatsoever, who are Inhabitants of that Province.

The variety of applications which have from time to time been transmitted from thence upon this business, of so opposite a tendency to each other, render it extremely difficult to fix upon any Arrangements calculated to satisfy all the Parties interested in, or connected with it; His Majesty's Servants however, are desirous to give the matter a full consideration and that they may be the better enabled to form a competent judgment of the steps adviseable to be taken, they are solicitous of obtaining from Your Lordship a full and impartial account of the different Classes of Persons who desire a Change of Government, as well as of those who are adverse to the Measure, specifying, as nearly as it can be ascertained, the Proportion of Numbers and Property on each side in the several Districts; and, That your Lordship at the same time should state in what manner, either the interests, or influence of the latter, might be affected by any alteration, and what is the Nature and grounds of their apprehensions from the Introduction of a greater Portion of English Law, of a System of Government more conformable to that established in other British Colonies.

In particular, They wish to be informed from what Causes the objection of the old Canadian Subjects to an House of Assembly chiefly arises: Whether, from its being foreign to the Habits and Notions of Government in which they have been educated, or, from an apprehension that it would be so formed as to give an additional Weight to the New Subjects, and lead to the introduction of Parts of the English Law which are obnoxious to them; or, from an idea that being invested with a Power of Taxation, it would eventually subject their Property to Burthens from which they are at present exempted; In like manner, whether the Objections which appear to exist to a farther Introduction of Trial by Jury, arise either from Prejudices against the Nature and Mode of such a decision, or from the difficulty of finding Jurors properly qualified, and the inconvenience to Individuals of the necessary Attendance; or from the Notion of this species of Trial being necessarily coupled with Modes of Proof and Rules of Law, different from those to which they are accustomed.

Though several of these points have already been noticed by Your Lordship in some of your Letters to me, and in the Papers which accompanied them, yet His Majesty's Servants do not think that they are sufficiently explicit to enable them to form a decided opinion.

The anxiety of His Majesty's Servants to be perfectly informed with

This document illustrates the anxiety of the British Government to understand Canadian_affairs as fully as possible before making any change in the Constitution. Thomas Townshend, Baron, afterwards Viscount Sydney, became Secretary of State for the Home Department December 23, 1783.

regard to all these matters as soon as possible, has induced them to send out an Extraordinary Packet Boat, and they are in hopes of receiving from Your Lordship upon her return, a full communication of the Sentiments entertained upon these several heads of enquiry, and which communication they wish to be made in a manner that may be proper to be laid before Parliament at the next meeting.

I find, upon an examination of the Plans submitted by Your Lordship's predecessor, that the most considerable part of the disbanded Troops and Loyalists who have become Settlers in the Province since the late War, have been placed upon Lands in that part of it which lie to the Westward of the Ceders, and beyond those Lands (excepting only Detroit and its Neighbourhood) which are granted in Seigneurie; as these People are said to be of the number desirous of the Establishment of the British Laws, It has been in Contemplation to propose to Parliament a division of the Province, to commence from the Boundary Line of the Seigneurie granted to Monsieur de Longueil, and to take in all the Country to the Southward and Westward in the manner described in the inclosed paper. But, before they take any step towards the execution of this measure, they are desirous of receiving the advantage of Your Lordships opinion how far it may be practicable or expedient; or, whether any other line or mode of separation would be preferable. Your Lordship will however understand. that it is The Kings intention that the New Settlers in that part of the Province who now hold their Lands upon Certificates of Occupation, shall, at all events, be placed upon the same footing in all respects, as their Brethren in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, by having their Lands granted to them in free and Common Soccage, with a Remission of Quit Rents for the first Ten Years; and Instructions will be prepared accordingly, as soon as Your Lordship's opinion upon the plan abovementioned shall be obtained.

With a view to the execution of the Plan in question, it will be necessary for you to consider, previously to your Report upon it, what sort of Civil Government ought to be formed for its internal arrangement, & whether the Number and description of the Inhabitants and other Circumstances are such as do, or do not, make the immediate Establishment of an Assembly within this district, practicable and adviseable. At all events It will be natural, as the greatest Part of these New Settlers are attached to the English Laws, that that System should be introduced as the general Rule, with such Exceptions or Qualifications as particular and local Circumstances may appear to require; At the same time Your Lordship will attend to the situation to which the Old Canadian Settlers at Detroit would be reduced, provided it may be found expedient, in consequence of the Information which the King's Servants expect to receive from Your Lordship, (and by which you will understand they mean in a great degree to be guided) to resist the Application for any Change of the Constitution of the remaining part of the Province; and, Your Lordship will also consider, in case of such a determination, in what part of the Province within the reserved limits, the Settlers at Detroit, if they should desire to be removed, might be accommodated with Lands the best suited to their advantage.

I am &c.,

SYDNEY.

1 General Haldimand.

'The rapids on the St. Lawrence below Lake St. Francis.

My Lord,

XLVIII

DORCHESTER TO SYDNEY'

[Trans. Shortt and Doughty.]

Quebec, 8th November, 1788.

The Province of Quebec consists at present of seven districts or counties; Quebec and Montreal in the central parts, Gaspe at and near the mouth of the Saint Lawrence, and the country, west of Point au Boudet, divided into the four districts of Luneburg, Mecklenburg, Nassau, and Hesse. The Canadians, or new subjects, occupy the districts of Quebec and Montreal, and some are also to be found in the districts of Gaspe, and Hesse. The three districts' of Luneburg, Mecklenburg, and Nassau, are inhabited only by the loyalists, or old subjects of the Crown. The Commerce of the country being chiefly carried on by the English occasions a considerable mixture of inhabitants in the towns of Quebec and Montreal, nearly in the proportion of one British to two Canadians Some of the former are also settled at Three rivers, Terrebonne, Wiliiam Henry, Saint Johns, and the entrance of Lake Champlain, and a small number are dispersed among the Canadians in the country parishes; the fur trade has collected some hundreds at Detroit, as the fisheries have at the bay of Chaleurs, and other parts of the district of Gaspe. proportions of British and Canadians in the two districts of Quebec and Montreal, exclusive of the towns, may be about one to forty, in the same districts, inclusive of the towns, one to fifteen, in the district of Hesse one to three, in the district of Gaspe two to three, and in the whole province, taken together, about one to five.

The

A change of the laws and form of government, by the introduction of an Assembly, is chiefly promoted by the commercial part of the community, in the towns of Quebec and Montreal. The Canadian Habitans, or farmers, who may be stiled the main body of the freeholders of the country, having little or no education, are unacquainted with the nature of the question, and would, I think, be for, or against it, according to their confidence in the representations of others. The Clergy do not appear to have interfered. But the Canadian gentlemen in general are opposed to the measure; they object to the introduction of a body of new laws, to the extent and tendency of which they are strangers; they express apprehensions of much disquietude among the people from the introduction of an assembly, and conceive that the low state of learning and knowledge in the country would lay them open to the pursuit and adoption of wrong measures, and to dangers, which a more enlightened people would not be exposed to. The fear of taxation, I take for granted, is among the motives of those, who are adverse to the change, and would no doubt strongly influence the sentiments of the common people, if they should come to consider the merits of the question. The objections, which appear to exist to a farther introduction of the trial by jury, arise partly from prejudice, and partly from an idea, that the choice would be narrow, and render it difficult to find jurors, totally disinterested.

In addition to these observations, it may be proper to mention, that the population of this country is chiefly confined to the margin of the waters from the western side of the gulph of Saint Lawrence in the district of Gaspe, to the settlements at and above Detroit, a chain of not less than eleven hundred miles; and that, though the ancient settled parts of the districts of Quebec and Montreal, from Kamaraska to Point au Boudet (comprehending about three hundred and seventy miles of the above line) may find no great burthen in the expence of a representation, it may be otherwise with the inhabitants newly set down in Gaspe, Lune

1 Dorchester's reply to the despatch of 3 Sept., 1788 (No. XLVII).

The Districts of Lunenburg, Mecklenburg, Nassau and Hesse were erected and defined by Patent dated July 24, 1788.

M

burg, Mecklenburg, Nassau, and Hesse, and that the inconveniencies and charges of assembling, from parts so distanct, would be increased by the nature of the climate, which renders the roads for several months in the year difficult, if not impracticable.

A division of the province, I am of opinion, is by no means adviseable at present, either for the interests of the new, or the ancient districts, nor do I see an immediate call for other regulations, than such as are involved in the subject of the general jurisprudence of the country. Indeed it appears to me, that the western settlements are as yet unprepared for any organization, superior to that of a county. This has lately been given to them, and will, I trust, answer their present wants, if I except Hesse, whose commercial and complicated affairs call for a particular provision, now under the consideration of a Committee of the Council. But though I hold a division of the province at present inexpedient, yet I am of opinion, that no time should be lost in appointing a person of fidelity and ability, in the confidence of the loyalists, to superintend, and lead them, and to bring their concerns with dispatch to the knowledge of government, under the title of Lieutenant Governor of the four western districts above named.

Should a division of the province notwithstanding be determined by the wisdom of His Majesty's Councils, I see no reason, why the inhabi tants of those western districts should not have an Assembly, as soon as it may be organized without detriment to their private affairs, nor against their having so much of the English system of laws, as may suit their local situation, and condition. But in this case particular care should be taken to secure the property and civil rights of the Canadian settlers at Detroit, who, I am convinced, would not chuse to emigrate, though good lands might be given them in the lower parts of the province. But, should they chuse to move, it would be attended with much inconvenience, as would their being left insulated, and attached to the district of Montreal. With respect to proper limits for the new government, in the event of a separation, I would recommend those described in the annexed paper, which will comprehend all the settlements of the loyalists on the river Saint Lawrence above Point au Boudet, and those also lately laid out for them on the south side of the Uttawas river.

I am with much respect and esteem

Your Lordship's most obedient, and most humble servant,

THE PROPOSED LINE OF DIVISION.

DORCHESTER.

To commence at a stone boundary on the north bank of the Lake St. Francis, at the cove west of pointe au Bodet, in the limit between the township of Lancaster, and the seigneurie of New Longueuil, running along the said limit in the direction of North, thirty four degrees west, to the westernmost angle of the said seigneurie of New Longueuil, thence along the north western boundary of the seigneurie of Vaudreuil running north twenty five degrees east, until it strikes the Ottawas River, to ascend the said river in to the lake Temiscaming, and from the head of the said lake by a line drawn due north until it strikes the boundary line of Hudson's bay, including all the territory to the westward and southward of the said line to the utmost extent of the country commonly called or known by the name of Canada.

D.