that is the hangar equipment for seaplanes is confined to naval uses. The Army usually has to do with land-plane equipment, but has two small seaplane hangars.

Mr. WOODRUFF. You have hangars for your seaplane equipment, have you not?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. Only a very limited amount. There are accommodations there for 36 planes at the present time. Mr. WOODRUFF. You have two items in this bill to cover hangars? Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUFF. You have an item of $216,000 for hangar and assembly shop; storehouse, $300,000; magazine, $30,000; hangar $224,000, and these would be for seaplanes.

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. They would be available for both seaplanes and land planes.

Mr. WOODRUFF. Do you need those for seaplanes or just one for airplanes?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. We need both of them for seaplanes.

Mr. WOODRUFF. You have hangars there for how many planes at the present time?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. Thirty-six planes.

Mr. WOODRUFF. And you want hangars for how many?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. Ultimately we desire hangars for 116 planes.

Mr. DARROW. Are those Army buildings of a permanent character or are they temporary?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. I am sorry that I can not tell you. I have not been there for about four years, and I do not recall. Mr. DARROW. If they are temporary buildings they would not be of very great use to the Navy.

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. I know from looking around there three or four years ago that a great many of the buildings there are of a semipermanent or temporary nature.

Mr. MAGEE. Can you give us the value of the Army investment on Ford Island?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. No, sir; the board about which I spoke a 1 ttle while ago is making a study of that.

Mr. MAGEE. We seem to have our figures concerning investments there very complete. I was wondering whether there are any such figures for the Army investments.

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. No, sir; the Navy has not the figures on the Army investment. The board is working on that at this time, but the report has not yet been submitted.

Mr. WOODRUFF. My idea was in case any of those buildings were of a permanent nature and were available, having due regard to location, that they could be used by the Navy in case the Army left Ford Island. That it would be foolish to duplicate them in new constructions. I think perhaps we had better get more definite information on that before we reach a conclusion.

Admiral Eberle, can you throw any light on this question-on the type of buildings on Ford Island as regards the Army and the Navy Air Services?

Admiral EBERLE. I can not do so, but Admiral Gregory can probably tell you.

Admiral GREGORY, I can tell you something about the situation there. The Army plant in general averages better than the Navy plant that was erected up until about two or three years ago. During the last few years the construction we have installed there is better than the Army construction. The Army hangars and their shops are of excellent construction, being steel frame and what we would term permanent construction. The location of the hangars, however, is such that they are suitable for land planes almost exclusively, while the Navy needs would be for seaplanes. Even though there may be Army hangars there, they would not serve the needs of hydroplanes purely on account of location.

Mr. WOODRUFF. Čan they be moved?

Admiral GREGORY. Yes; but the expense of doing it would be very great. In view of the fact that the Navy would have some land planes, anyhow, it would be preferable to let Army hangars remain where they are and build additional hangars for Navy use, because they would need the runways and beaches.

In regard to the shops and motor test facilities, it is undoubtedly true that the Army installation would be of value to the Navy, and it is doubtless a fact that the Navy schedule could be somewhat reduced if it were certain that the Navy could take over the Army plant; but, as Lieutenant Commander Murray has stated, the proposition has not been worked out in detail, and it is doubted whether the Bureau of Aeronautics is in position at the present time to state exactly how much these requests could be reduced. I believe, however, that with a study of the Army plant within a few days they could devise a plan which would give the committee the information as to how much this program could be reduced.

Mr. WOODRUFF. Do you not think it advisable that before authorizing this construction we get this additional information?

Admiral GREGORY. Yes; but that is a matter which could be ascertained in a few days and before the committee finishes its hearings on this bill.

Mr. WOODRUFF. I think the Navy Department should take the necessary steps to furnish this committee that information before we proceed to a conclusion.

Admiral GREGORY. There is another point which indicates why no definite plan has been formulated. It is because the Army is working out its plan as to how it can be provided for if it gives up Ford Island. There was an appropriation made a year ago, and an additional sum is carried in the bill now pending, for the channel approach and dredging at Pearl Harbor. That contract has been awarded and work has begun. It provides, among other things, for the disposal of dredged material on a great deal of land at Fort Kamehameha, which is the area the Army would use for airplane activities such as it would need; and the Army was doubtless waiting to see whether it would have that land available before it went ahead and prepared detailed plans. I think the Army may safely depend upon that, because the contract calls for this filling to be done without expense over and above what it would be if the material were hauled to sea. As that has been made a provision of this contract, it will insure to the Army that it will get that land.

Mr. WOODRUFF. Let us pass to the matter of the air station at Coco Solo, Canal Zone.

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. The first item for the naval air station at Coco Solo is a general storehouse to cost $187,000. The present storage facilities at Coco Solo consist of very small temporary wood frame buildings, and are entirely inadequate to provide for the requirements of the station under the five-year plane-building program. Storage facilities must be provided for 90 planes to be attached to the station and a total of 513 with the fleet. This item contemplates a large reinforced concrete building, 50,000 square feet of floor area, and along the most modern lines of aviation storehouse construction.

Mr. WOODRUFF. Then there is an item covering water-front improvements.

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. Yes, sir; the next item for the naval air station at Coco Solo is water-front improvements, $60,000. This item comprises the construction of one reinforced concrete seaplane runway for use in taking planes to and from the water to the two hangars (authorization for the construction of which is included in this bill), approximately 300 linear feet of seawall in front of the two hangars, and concrete paving required around the hangars for the handling of seaplanes. The estimated costs are based on a similar runway recently constructed in the immediate vicinity, and bulkhead and paving work also recently completed. The new runway is so designed that it can take any seaplane operated by the Navy when fully loaded. Foundation conditions at the site are not of the best, necessitating the use of piles of a considerable length in the construction of the runway. At the present time the water-front facilities there are in a very sad state of repair.

Mr. WOODRUFF. Regarding the water-front needs at the naval air station at Coco Solo, that is an item that requires urgent attention. Those of us who have seen conditions at Coco Solo realize the necessity for that improvement. I have taken the liberty to temporarily insert this item down here [indicating] as one necessary to be done at the present time. It will be considered by the full committee and receive either an approval or disapproval.

The next item for the naval air station st Coco Solo is barracks and ness hall, $400,000.

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. That is true.

Mr. WOODRUFF. Is there any item in this bill looking to providing noncommissioned personnel and their families with living quarters

there?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. No, sir.

Mr. WOODRUFF. Have you seen the quarters in which they are living?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. I know their condition.

Mr. WOODRUFF. I have seen those quarters and I think most members of the committee have seen them, and I would not be surprised if we should receive a message most any day stating that the buildings had tumbled down and killed perhaps some women and children. I think I would include in this bill an item to take care of quarters for the enlisted personnel and their families-the noncommissioned personnel and their families stationed at Coco Solo. I think it is an outrage to house those people as they are housed at this

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What have you to say, if anything, about this mess hall and barracks, $400,000?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. This item comprises the construction of a barracks to accommodate 375 men and a mess hall to accommodate 700 men. The five-year plane-building program will at the end of the fiscal year 1932 increase the complement of planes at the air station to 90 and the enlisted complement to 700 men. The present barracks and messing facilities are of temporary construction and sufficient to house only 400 men. It is planned to construct at this time a permanent barracks for 375 men and a mess hall for the full complement to be ultimately provided, and, at sometime after 1932, to construct permanent barracks for the remaining 325 men.

Mr. WOODRUFF. Those two items are for the enlisted personnel, as I understand?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. Yes, sir; barracks for 375 men. Mr. WOODRUFF. What is the enlisted strength there at this time? Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. The present complement is 276 and the ultimate complement is 700.

Mr. MAGEE. It is proposed to design these barracks for a larger number of men?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. MAGEE. You have in mind an ultimate complement of 700? Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. Yes, sir; this item provides for one-half that number.

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. May I at this time say something about an item of $370,000 for two hangars at the naval air station at Coco Solo?

Mr. WOODRUFF. Certainly.

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. This item comprises the construction of two hangars, approximately 330 feet long, 160 feet deep, and 24 feet high. There are now at the naval air station, Coco Solo, three temporary wood-frame hangars of a total area of 9,880 square feet, and the hangar completed during the past year provides 35,200 square feet of space. The two hangars covered by this item are a part of the total of four hangars necessary to house the 90 planes to be stationed at Coco Solo. The cost figures are based upon the construction of the permanent steel hangars recently finished at Coco Solo.

In order to get started at all on the five-year building program, it is most essential that we have hangars provided for these planes, else we can not get planes down there or use them.

Mr. WOODRUFF. I think members of the committee fully appreciate the urgent necessity of hangars at Coco Solo.

You have an item of $90,000 for an engine-overhaul shop at the naval air station at Coco Solo. What are your facilities there at the present time for overhauling engines?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. We estimate that with the existing facilities in the development of Coco Solo we can very well defer the authorization of that item until 1930. In other words, we consider that these other items that have been enumerated by me should have precedence over everything else. They should have priority in the order given.

Mr. MAGEE. And you would put that item of $187,000 for a storehouse for the naval air station at Coco Solo as one entitled to priority, would you not?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. Yes; that is included.

Mr. WOODRUFF. Speaking with respect to priority, do you feel that a general storehouse should come first? That is the way it is on the list handed to me. Then appears the item of two hangars, and then the storehouse and mess hall.

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUFF. I hope the committee will seriously and favorably consider that item of $60,000 for water-front improvement at Coco Solo, because it is very important.

Mr. MAGEE. Is that the order of improvements there?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. Yes, sir; I feel that that would fill our needs, excepting another item of filling. The item for waterfront improvement calls for $60,000, and there is another item of $150,000 for filling.

Mr. WOODRUFF. There is no item covering filling in this bill. Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. No, sir; but that work has to go along in connection with the development.

Mr. WOODRUFF. But it is not immediately necessary.

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. No, sir.

Mr. MAGEE. What is your opinion as to the necessity for furnishing better quarters for noncommissioned officers and their families at Coco Solo?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. I am in thorough accord with. what has been said about that. I feel that the proper housing of personnel, both enlisted and commissioned, at all our navy yards and naval establishments is just as necessary as any other part of naval development.

Mr. WOODRUFF. I suppose Admiral Gregory can give us full information in regard to that?

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. WOODRUFF. Now let us pass to the items for Sand Point, Wash.

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. The first item for Sand Point is a hangar to cost $120,000. This hangar would be 220 feet by 160 feet by 24 feet and provide for a peace-time complement of six patrol and six torpedo planes. Further expansion for war activities. is not contemplated during the time of peace, as expansion within the continental limits of the United States is not regarded as difficult as in the case of advance bases such as Coco Solo and Pearl Harbor. The building contemplated would be a permanent steel structure, following the standard designs developed for hangars. This hangar will be used to house seaplanes primarily, although it will be so situated that land planes can be placed in the building.

Mr. WOODRUFF. The next item is an engine-overhaul shop to cost $70,000 for the naval air station, Sand Point, Wash.

Lieutenant Commander MURRAY. This shop will be of permanent construction, and used for the overhaul and rebuilding of aircraft engines. It will have a total area of 17,500 square feet. It will be subdivided so as to afford facilities for overhauling engines, miscellaneous machine work, sheet-metal work, black-smithing, etc. will be of sufficient size to accommodate the 12 planes nominally

It