This is the latest replacement program that we have any reliable information on. In addition to the above, the Japanese Administration has fixed upon the following five-year replacement building program-this involves 261,000,000 yen, which is a compromise from the original figure of 325,000,000 yen. This program has not yet been formally authorized by the Diet, which is to meet December 24, 1926. There is every reason to believe that authorization will be forthcoming shortly after the Diet meets. This program involves 4 10,000-ton cruisers; 15 destroyers; 4 fleet or cruiser submarines; 2 gunboats; 1 minelayer; and 1 airplane carrier or tender.

The CHAIRMAN. How many cruisers of all kinds had Japan completed up to October, 1926?

Admiral EBERLE. Nineteen comprising 102,000 tons-modern cruisers they are.

The CHAIRMAN. And her building program calls for what?
Admiral EBERLE. There are under way six of 54,200 tons.

The CHAIRMAN. That makes 25 ships she is building?

Admiral EBERLE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the total tonnage of the two figures?
Admiral EBERLE. Twenty-five of 156,205 tons.

The CHAIRMAN. And what has she provided for that she is not building?

Admiral EBERLE. Four 10,000-ton cruisers in the replacement program which has not yet been formally authorized.

The CHAIRMAN. She has built and building?

Admiral EBERLE. Twenty-five.

The CHAIRMAN. And authorized built and building?

Admiral EBERLE. Twenty-five of 156,205 tons.

The CHAIRMAN. However, they put them down as 16 and 9, mak

ing a total of 25?

Admiral EBERLE. Yes; that is the same total.

The CHAIRMAN. They have been completed?

Admiral EBERLE. Nineteen completed and six building.

The CHAIRMAN. Now let us pass on to France and go through the same figures for France. How many completed?

Admiral EBERLE. I will give the list: There are three cruisers completed, totaling 16,731 tons; six building, totaling 53,619 tons; one of 10,000 tons appropriated for; that is 10, totaling 80,350 tons. All told there are 10 of 80,350 tons. They have two more authorized but not appropriated for.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the size of them?

Admiral EBERLE. That is unknown. They are probably 10,000 tons; but we have no details of what they may be.

Mr. UPDIKE. What is the total of their tonnage, Admiral? Admiral EBERLE. Built and building and authorized, 10 ships of 80,350 tons. There are two more authorized but not appropriated for. Sixteen thousand seven hundred and thirty-one is the total tonnage of the three built, and there are six others with a tonnage of 53,619 building, and one appropriated for of 10,000 tons. That makes a total of 10 and a tonnage of 80,350, and two others authorized but not appropriated for.

The CHAIRMAN. Now let us go into the figures for Italy.

Admiral EBERLE. Italy has 8 cruisers built with a total tonnage of 30,784 tons; 2 building of 20,000 tons, or a total of 10 ships built or building with a tonnage of 50,784. The Italian ministry has not announced its future building program.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me see whether I am right in this-if these programs that have been authorized by these foreign powers should be completed, and the program authorized by the United States should be completed, with this class of warships running from 3,000 tons to 10,000 tons each, we will be in third place in 1932. Can there be any doubt of that?

Admiral EBERLE. No.

The CHAIRMAN. And a good deal in third place?
Admiral EBERLE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any doubt about that?

Admiral EBERLE. No. If these building programs are completed in 1932 Great Britain will have 63 ships of 410,290 tons; Japan will have 29 ships of 196,000 tons; and the United States will have 18 ships of 155,000 tons.

The CHAIRMAN. The members of the committee are leaving at this time and we can not do much more this afternoon anyway, therefore let us adjourn at this time to meet to-morrow morning at 10.30. (Thereupon the committee at 3.35 o'clock p. m. adjourned.)

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[No. 46]

STATEMENTS OF HON. THEODORE DOUGLAS ROBINSON, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE NAVY; REAR ADMIRAL CHARLES B. MCVAY, JR., BUDGET OFFICER; CAPT. ARTHUR J. HEPBURN AND COMMANDER PAUL BASTEDO, OF THE DIVISION OF NAVAL INTELLIGENCE, ON THE STATE OF THE NAVY

COMMITTEE ON NAVAL AFFAIRS,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Thursday, December 9, 1926.

The committee met at 10.30 o'clock, a. m., pursuant to adjournment, Hon. Thomas S. Butler (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. I think we have had the last word on the comparison of the numbers of cruisers built, building, and projected by the different nations. Have the other members of the committee any further questions to ask on that line?

(There were no questions.)

The CHAIRMAN. Then, if it is the desire of the committee, we will go ahead with the submarines.

STATEMENTS OF HON. THEODORE DOUGLAS ROBINSON, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE NAVY; REAR ADMIRAL CHARLES B. MCVAY, JR., BUDGET OFFICER; CAPT. ARTHUR J. HEPBURN AND COMMANDER PAUL BASTEDO, OF THE INTELLIGENCE DIVISION

The CHAIRMAN. Captain, will you turn, please, to your figures, and tell us how many submarines we now have, how many are under construction, and how many are authorized and appropriated for, along the same line that we followed yesterday in the comparison of the cruiser strength of the various nations?

Captain HEPBURN. The United States has now built six fleet submarines, which include the three new ones.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the tonnage of each one?

Captain HEPBURN. The total tonnage is 9,675.

Mr. MILLER. What do you designate as a fleet submarine, as distinguished from any other kind of submarine?

Captain HEPBURN. We have a specific definition.

A fleet submarine is but primarily a submarine that has the speed and the seagoing qualities to accompany the fleet.

Mr. MILLER. Are there any in the United States Navy that have not the seagoing qualities sufficient to accompany the fleet?

Captain HEPBURN. Oh, yes; what we call "submarines, first line," that have not the speed to keep up with the fleet.

Mr. MILLER. Then you have only six that can keep up with the fleet?

Captain HEPBURN. Only six called fleet submarines. Specifically, a fleet submarine is one which mounts 3-inch guns plus, is of 1,000 tons or over in displacement, and has a surface speed of 20 knots. plus.

Mr. MILLER. One thousand tons and over?

Captain HEPBURN. One thousand tons and over; 9,675 is the total tonnage of our fleet submarines built.

The CHAIRMAN. Have we any projected? Have we any fleet submarines provided for?

Captain HEPBURN. Yes, sir; there are three authorized but not appropriated for.

The CHAIRMAN. There are three authorized by law. Under what program; what year? That is not on our 1916 program, is it?

Captain HEPBURN. Yes, sir; 1916.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, 10 years on those three; and they have not yet been provided for in any way? Captain HEPBURN. No, sir

The CHAIRMAN. Simply authorized?
Captain HEPBURN. Authorized.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you submitted an estimate for an appropriation to construct those submarines?

Captain HEPBURN. That is outside my province, sir. I can not say about that.

The CHAIRMAN. Admiral, have you submitted an estimate for an appropriation to construct those submarines?

Admiral MCVAY. We have not; no, sir

The CHAIRMAN. I am not going to try to persuade you to construct the submarines. You know what is your duty, plainly enough, and you are performing it, no doubt. But have you got it in your mind that you ever will submit an estimate to construct those submarines that we authorized 10 years ago, or do you think you will forget them?

Admiral MCVAY. At present the Navy Department does not contemplate asking for funds for those three submarines.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it because Congress authorized them that they do not ask for them?

Admiral MCVAY. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. It is in contemplation that you will proceed under the authority of 1916 and build these three submarines?

Admiral MCVAY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Very good. These six fleet submarines have been built under the provisions of the 1916 act?

Admiral MCVAY. Not entirely. The authorizations come under acts from 1914 through 1918.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think that you can improve upon the six? Mr. ROBINSON. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Then let us turn to Great Britain and see how we compare with Great Britain in fleet submarines.

Captain HEPBURN. In the same class, Great Britain has four built, three building, and six authorized and appropriated for.

The CHAIRMAN. That is 13.

Captain HEPBURN. And 18 authorized but not yet appropriated for. The CHAIRMAN. That is 31?

Captain HEPBURN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Now let me see if I understand it. We are still talking about fleet submarines?

Captain HEPBURN. Fleet submarines; yes, sir.